GOL Special – Mickeychlorians
Steve’s mind is blown for the first time in his life. Derek continues to amaze Steve with what the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm means. Star Wars Episode 7 speculation begins. Michael Cohen from Frontlines: The Clone Wars Podcast joins the guys to discuss the future of our beloved animated series. And there are jokes. Steve passes out…twice. All this on a special edition of Geek Out Loud.
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Steve, you seem like a nice guy, and you do a fun show most of the time. But I can’t stand your endless bashing of Joss Whedon. No, I don’t agree with the guy’s politics or (lack of) morals in some areas, either, but he’s a phenomenal storyteller.
You bashed him over and over in your Avengers podcast, saying that he had virtually NOTHING to do with why Avengers was a great movie, which is nonsense. Yes, he built on the work of others, but by that logic, all of the filmmakers built on the work of Stan Lee, who in turn built on the tradition of earlier comic books, and so on, and so forth.
Audiences have never had a good big superhero team movie before this, ever. Look at any version of The Fantastic Four. Look at CBS’s Justice League pilot from the ’90s (on YouTube). Only Joss was able to bring a group of very disparate characters and give them all something worthwhile to do in a very cohesive, satisfying movie.
Is he a god or something? No, of course not. But you’re endlessly bashing him like he’s some kind of hack. This isn’t Joel Schumaker we’re talking about.
The way you and the other hosts constantly disparage him (“Well, anyone can be involved with Star Wars, as long as it isn’t JOSS”), you sound like it’s like commonly accepted everywhere that he’s bad for the genre. Just listening to your podcast, no one would be able to guess that Joss had just written and directed the third most successful film of all time.
As for SHIELD, I have no reason to doubt that it will be a successful movie and not get canceled. Yes, Joss has had a couple of failures, but so has everyone in Hollywood. He shepherded two series through pretty long runs (7 years and 5 years, respectively). And, again, he just made one of the most successful movies ever. I think he knows what he’s doing.
Also, like the Marvel movies, the SHIELD TV show will be based on a built-in brand, so it’s very likely to be a smash in the ratings. The way you so quickly dismissed it, frankly, came off as a bit arrogant. (You personally are not arrogant, but that particular statement was very off-putting.)
If there had been just one or two comments and then the issue was dropped, it wouldn’t have bothered me so much. But I fast-forwarded repeatedly (in both the Avengers podcast and the Mickeychlorians one) and every time I stopped, I heard more “stupid Joss” this and that. So I finally stopped listening to both.
Again, you seem like a very nice person. And I’ve enjoyed some of your podcasts (my favorite is still “Geeking Out on Grace”). But you need to cut Joss a bit more of a break. He’s certainly earned it.
The truth is that:
A. When we talk about Whedon we talk in Hyperbole. The SHIELD comment was made as a reference to a point made several shows ago. Not much of Whedon’s television work has lasted beyond a season or two.
B. A lot of what we say about Whedon is to rile up the Whedon “cultists” who are out there…and they ARE out there. He’s become a running bit on the show as much as Star Trek and Twilight. I have no animosity toward Whedon and I love the Avengers. My problem was that the movie while written and directed by him was done so under the watchful eye of Kevin Feige. There was a vision set in place before Whedon came on board. As to there being no successful team on screen…X-Men…X-Men 2? Have we forgotten so soon. What made the Avengers so special was the “crossover” feel of the film.
Ultimately, we never said “Stupid Joss.” I don’t think anyone who is willing to put themselves out there creatively and touch so many people is stupid. In fact, if you listen to me when Whedon is mentioned, what I said was he wouldn’t work for director of Episode 7 because he’s “hip deep in Marvel right now.” That wasn’t a slam on him. He’s proven that he loves the source material and will do a great job with Avengers 2.
At the end of the day, the bits a bit. Whedon happens to have found himself in the Geek Out Loud repetoire along with “Safe place to geek out…unless it’s Star Trek…or Twilight.” I guess now I’ll add to that “Or Whedon.”
Finally, no need for the “you seem like a nice guy” comments. Your criticisms never have to be accompanied with a compliment to “soften the blow.” I stand by the work that Derek and I do, and if someone disagrees with it, then their criticism is valid. If it’s well thought out, as yours is, I can accept it easily.
Stick around in future, you never know when Derek and I may be swayed to love Whedon as much as you do.